BISA Portfolio Podcast
BISA Portfolio Podcast
Portfolio Podcast Episode 11: DE&I Rising Stars (Part 2)
In this second part of a two-part series highlighting BISA DE&I Rising Stars Program participants, guest host Piera Valle (Pacific Life) is joined by Amy Busch (The Huntington Investment Company) and Mary Tuggle (iCapital), both from the program's 2022 cohort.
They share their stories, thoughts and advice after almost a year spent as program participants, discussing topics including:
- Benefits of having a mentor 7:03
- Their commitment to DE&I 10:37
- Recruiting and retaining young professionals 18:36
- Advice for people new to the industry 26:50
- and more!
The BISA DE&I Program is an exclusive BISA-sponsored recognition and leadership development program for professionals who have demonstrated commitment to creating an impact in and advancing DE&I in our industry or within their communities. It’s designed to foster professional growth, leadership growth and career advancement for diverse individuals through mentoring, networking events and volunteer opportunities.
BISA is the leading financial services industry association dedicated to serving those responsible for the marketing, sales and distribution of securities, insurance and other financial products and advisory services through the bank channel.
Piera Valle
Welcome everyone to the BISA portfolio podcast, a podcast elevating the voices of Bank Insurance and Securities Association members. I'm Piera Valle, guest host for the second part of an exciting two part series, highlighting members of our BISA Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Rising Star Program. These rising stars come from unique backgrounds, but all have shared experiences as leaders in our industry committed to DE&I. Today, two of our 2022 members will share their stories, thoughts and advice after almost a year in the program. But first, I want to encourage you to listen to the first part of this podcast series. It's a great listen, you do not want to miss it. I also want to remind you to please subscribe to this podcast and leave it a rating and review it while you're at it. It's available wherever you listen to your podcasts. So make sure you are subscribed, whether that be on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or another platform. And if you enjoy our discussion today, please share with your network.
Piera Valle
If you didn't listen to the first part of this series, just a quick overview of myself and the rising star program. I've been a BISA member for over 20 years and work at Pacific Life on their strategic partnership team. I've focused on the financial institution channel for most of my career. First with JP Morgan Chase is their annuity product manager and for the last 14 years at Pacific Life. Just a little bit about my personal life. I am married, have three stepchildren and live in Chicago and a passion of mine outside business activity is working with my husband to help underprivileged young athletes, mainly from Latin American countries, pursue their dream for providing them free management and training.
Piera Valle
The BISA DE&I program was created as a way to engage and recruit people from diverse backgrounds to BISA while providing value-added support and knowledge to up and coming wealth management professionals. This is an exclusive BISA-sponsored recognition and leadership development program for professionals who have demonstrated commitment to creating an impact in and advancing DE&I in our industry or within their communities. It's designed to foster professional growth, leadership growth and career advancement for diverse individuals through mentoring, networking events and volunteer opportunities. With that housekeeping out of the way, I'm so excited to introduce to you our two guests of the day. Please welcome Mary Tuggle and Amy Busch. Can you both tell us a little about yourself? Mary?
Mary Tuggle
Hi everyone. My name is Mary Tuggle and I was in the 2022 BISA rising star class. I'm originally from Memphis, Tennessee and attended the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where I studied corporate finance and investments at the __ business school. I started my career at Goldman Sachs in New York City and left after a few years to join the Simon Markets team shortly after they spun out from Goldman. Since joining I've been focused on our structured investments business, and our broker dealer client base. Simon was recently acquired by Icapital where I continue to focus on platform sales across our various product lines in the broker dealer channel.
Piera Valle
Great, thank you, Amy.
Amy Busch
Hello, everyone. My name is Amy Busch. I am a project manager at the Huntington investment company in Columbus, Ohio. I am originally from Ohio, and I did my undergraduate here at Ohio University and went on and got my master's at George Mason University out in DC. So I've been in my current role for around six years. But prior to joining this industry, I actually worked in a different industry. I worked as a strategy management consultant for the Defense Centers of Excellence for Psychological Health and Traumatic Brain Injury. And I also worked as an intern for the United States Agency for International Development.
Piera Valle
Interesting. Great. Well, you are both members of our 2022 DE&I rising stars program. Can you both walk me through your reaction to being nominated or admitted to the program? And can you share why you're on the program? Amy, can I start with you?
Amy Busch
Absolutely. So I was nominated by HFA's leadership team. And as you can tell from my kind of diverse backroom background I was truly shocked. I wasn't expecting it. I didn't really even know the support network that was out there with BISA. Once I learned about the program I was extremely excited about the opportunity kind of to grow and you know, receive mentorship in the industry and just truly honored once I was accepted and to the program itself.
Piera Valle
Great thank you. Mary?
Mary Tuggle
Similar response to Amy. I was, you know, really candidly very humbled when I found out that my colleague had nominated me to the program. So, you know, very humbled and honored to be admitted, particularly when I look at the program's mission and its cohort, I was really thrilled to join and be surrounded by industry leaders and mentors are dedicated to driving and advancing DE&I initiatives at their respective organizations, and new I get the chance to learn from peers and mentors about how they think about DE&I and how I can make similar pushes in my organization and my professional orbit, I think I was probably nominated. Because I tend to be loud and proud about being a female in the financial services industry. But you know, just really excited and humbled to be a part of the program.
Piera Valle
You both certainly deserve to be part of the program. It's been really great working with both of you. What have you learned and gained from being a part of this program so far, Mary?
Mary Tuggle
I think this program has allowed me to create relationships with people and even organizations that I wouldn't have had the opportunity to otherwise. Through their program, I've learned so much from a formal mentor, you know, but I've also gained a ton of informal mentors through the relationships and the connectivity that I've had through the organization. They've all helped guide me and coach me in a professional and a personal capacity, candidly, whether it be guidance on the best places to buy a great affordable work wardrobe or guidance on how to address our discussions and advocating for myself on promotion cycles or compensation. The female mentorship and friendships I've gained are, candidly invaluable through the program.
Piera Valle
So good to hear. Amy, did you want to add something?
Amy Busch
I just reinforce as well the mentorship has been by far my favorite part, really just being able to bounce ideas, you know, off your mentor about where you think you should be going in your career, you know, what opportunities they might see or suggestions they may have. And just getting their perspective is invaluable, and really kind of helps guide you through the professional development process.
Piera Valle
It's great. Well, that's a great segue to my next question, which is talking about our mentoring program. Can you both share with me about your relationship with your mentor and how having a mentor has helped your journey? Mary?
Mary Tuggle
Absolutely. You know, kind of in the earlier question, we really talked about how mentorship was was one of the key themes that we've really enjoyed in the program. And you know, I think BISA has done an incredible job and focusing on really pairing you with a mentor that's going to be best suited to guide you on your professional journey. I mean, you guys could really run a dating app, I was so impressed with the thoughtfulness of each mentor and mentee pairing. But it's really been a number of things, you know, advice and guidance around career, things like comp and promotion cycles, getting the competence to advocate for oneself, giving you the tools to be able to mentor and teach others guidance on work-life balance, all the themes that we constantly hear that people struggle with. Just having someone to be a sounding board to talk about that with has made me feel so comfortable knowing that I'm not the only one who who needs this guidance or has had this experience. And having a mentor has made me feel more comfortable asking others to champion me in my own internal organization or in other elements of my life. And it's made me recognize how much I value my mentor and how much I want to as a result, mentor those around me, whether they be peers or juniors or even my superiors. This program has made me realize that mentorship can take a number of different forms. And it doesn't have to just be that senior to junior relationships. When I think about my day to day at I capital, I have two colleagues who are peers of mine in Nicole and AJ. And we're all at the same level. But we do serve as that sounding board and support system for one another. And I think it's so important to identify mentors, who can be honest and constructive yet supportive, which is exactly what I've received through the DEI program.
Piera Valle
Mary, thank you for recognizing the thought and process that's put into place to help pair the mentors and mentees. We really do take our time and try to do our best to pair you with the the best possible mentor.
Mary Tuggle
It was so apparent that you guys were putting in the work and effort to really be thoughtful about the mentor and mentee pairs you know, you organize that call where we all come together and really just take the time to get to know one another. We talked about you know personally what we do with our time and what we're interested in. We talk about professionally what we're doing. And as I scanned across the Zoom call looking at all the faces and hearing from all the different mentors. The person I was paired with was the one I looked at going wow, wouldn't it be cool if I if I were We're partnered with her, she's someone I really look up to.
Piera Valle
Great. Thank you. Amy, did you want to expand on your relationship with your mentor?
Amy Busch
Sure, absolutely. So I think as someone, again, newer to the industry is still learning quite a bit at first, when you're paired with really what are kind of leaders in the industry, and they're going to serve as your mentors, that can be a little intimidating. But the rising star program did a really fantastic job of providing us really with kind of a dialogue or a guidebook that helps you flow or have conversations with your mentor. So I really appreciated that. And once you kind of develop that level of comfort, you just find that the conversation flows naturally, I've really found that this year, having a mentor has really helped me feel encouraged and empowered in my professional development, it really allows me to explore kind of my interests more and talk about the pros and cons of where I think I should go, what I think I should do. And if this really does make sense, and it's going to get me where I want to be. And overall, it's just been a very positive experience. It's truly the most valuable part of the entire program.
Piera Valle
As leader of the DEI Rising Star program, I know your commitment to DEI but can you expand on this for our listeners? Amy, can I start with you?
Amy Busch
Absolutely. So I don't think even many people may not know this at my firm, but I actually am from Ohio, from the Midwest, I grew up on a farm. And I was the first kind of in my family to get a bachelor's degree and later go on and get a master's. Immediately after undergrad I actually lived abroad for two years. I did one year in South Korea. And another year in Mexico, where I taught English as a Second Language. I'm very passionate about teaching ESL, it's one of those things where you see an immediate benefit, I've done it both at home and abroad. And when you teach someone a new language, I mean, it's so empowering to see them go out, use it, come back, tell you a story about how they were able to go to the grocery store, get their hair cut, or just those simple things we take for granted. And it's really all of those experiences that have kind of shaped me, they've given me a lot of empathy and opened my eyes towards the experience of others. It's really made me value, you know, diverse voices, knowing that those voices only make our organization or teams in our communities stronger. And ultimately, it's what drives me to support the growth of others. You know, I was able to climb my way up a little bit. If I can, you know, look back and help someone else who's trying to climb their way as well. That just makes it all worthwhile to make their climb maybe a little easier.
Piera Valle
Great, thank you! Mary?
Mary Tuggle
I became passionate about DE&I pretty much my first day in the workforce. I had always heard about the male domination associated with the finance industry, but I didn't really know what to expect until I was immersed in it. My first day in my full time role in New York, I was assigned my team on the floor, and I actually interned in a different group that summer prior. So I didn't really know what I was walking into. You know, as I was assigned my team, my fellow analysts to my right turned and whispered to me 'that team's called the frat house, good luck.' Having grown up with two brothers, I was unconcerned and confident in my ability to keep up with the group. But I paused and thought, what if someone hadn't had this experience before? You know, what would it be like if you looked around, and you were like, there's no one that looks like me. The frat house actually ended up being a really great group with a very tough nickname. But they did mentor me, they did encourage me and they helped me grow in my professional career. And even though my experience was a positive one, and I did learn a lot, I did look around at times and go, is there anyone that least on my immediate desk that that looks and feels like me, and this is just in my experience as a woman in the industry. So I can't imagine for other voices what that looks and feels like, you know, and I continue to be passionate about this cause because while women are starting to reduce the gender gap in the finance industry, I think we now roughly represent about 46% of the employee base, the percentage of women in executive roles is really only about 15. And in finance, female representation declines as title and level rises. If women choose to leave finance, that should be their choice. However, I feel an obligation to make women feel more valued, represented and heard. So the choice to stay or to go always sits with them in them alone. You know, when Simon was acquired by Icapital, we had this event that was very focused on women and women's voices in the organization. And I thought it was so important for me to work in an organization that's so early on in my time there set the stage that female voices are heard and encouraged and important and acknowledged
Piera Valle
Great, thank you both for your commitment and passion to DEI. I think it's amazing to hear and see, and I'm excited for the future of this industry. Speaking of in 2023, we will be opening up the DEI Rising Star Program to people of all ages. But I know you're both from a younger generation, engaging in including people from different generations is so important to our industry. I'm curious about your career experience working with people from older generations. Amy, I know this can bring benefits and challenges. Can you speak to some of them?
Amy Busch
Absolutely. First of all, I'm flattered that you consider me from a younger generation, I probably am younger, but I actually consider myself somewhere almost like in the middle. And I find that you know, each generation brings its own set of values and benefits to the organization. So this past year I worked closely with one of our interns, I manage them. And part of the tasks that I assigned the intern like on their first day was to go out and create an Excel spreadsheet. I'm a project manager. So we create a lot of tracking sheets. And immediately I was like, take your time, however long you need, you know, if you need to go Google things go look it up. 20 minutes later, this intern brings me back an impeccable tracking sheet better probably than many tracking sheets I've developed like color coded, organized, it was amazing. And I mean, I felt completely obsolete when working with this intern. But the truth is, even though this intern was you know, very technologically savvy, was great at Excel was great at things like PowerPoints, this intern still had a lot to learn about the industry itself, the business and even just kind of operating within an organization. There are some things that just time such as like time and experience that you you can't replace. On the flip side, as a project manager, I work closely with what I'm going to call a lot of veteran employees or veterans of the industry. And a lot of the projects I work on are larger, you know, change, mergers, things of that nature, these projects wouldn't get off the ground. If these veteran employees weren't there with their depth of knowledge and experience. I mean, so really, it takes both groups to ensure the success of the organization. And by allowing both of them to bring their strengths. You also don't want to assume like age based stereotypes in the workplace or assume things about people solely on their age. I think the golden rule is just to treat people how they want to be treated. And the strongest teams are ones that bring those diverse perspectives, whether it be culture, gender, or age.
Piera Valle
Great, thank you. Mary, did you have anything else to add on this subject?
Mary Tuggle
I think Amy really hit it all there. I mean, I think she's dead on that diversity of any kind really allows different voices and perspectives to be heard. And the same is true with diversity of age. When I think about COVID, you know, I think this really highlighted and exacerbated some of the differences, I would say, in generational gaps. You know, for example, many of our older employees placed a serious emphasis on keeping cameras on on Zoom. For many of our senior leaders, they've spent so much of their career connecting with their teams and their clients through conferences, or meetings or dinners. And it was really all centered on face to face contact. For the younger generation, we've all grown up with technology and more impersonal mediums like text message or social media. So it didn't seem rude or problematic to join meetings with our cameras off. But after, you know, spending two years where we were on Zoom consistently, I can't imagine having a world in which no one had their camera on for that entire time, you know, having guidance and advice from people on things like that, who maybe didn't grow up with the same kind of tech, I think, was really helpful and actually creating a real culture and camaraderie during a time where that was so important, so needed. On the flip side, you know, I think one of the things that's interesting within our client base is, you know, seeing the I would say, just general apprehension about technology and the disruption in the wealth management space. And I think one of the places that the younger generation has become really valuable is helping them become comfortable and embracing and appreciating the role that technology can play. And, you know, that's the thing that I've just noticed in my seat. But again, I think Amy really hit the nail on the head and saying, you know, we all have a diversity of experience, and that can inform our opinions and perspectives and age is just another layer and that diversity.
Piera Valle
Absolutely. So both of you have showed us that people from all ages and backgrounds can make an impact in wealth management. I think most of us understand the benefits of having a diverse clientele as well as a diverse workforce. However, as an industry, we're struggling to retain and recruit young professionals. Can you both share why you think that is and what your suggestions are for increasing recruitment and retention? tension of diverse voices. What are your thoughts, Mary?
Mary Tuggle
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I think about increasing recruitment and retention of diverse voices, I really think there needs to be more involvement and dedication to DEI across the organization. It really can't be siloed to a single team or department. It needs to be something that's supported and embraced by all senior leaders. I think organizations need to make sure that they're soliciting employee feedback. They need to train managers on DEI, they need to create an equitable and diverse culture, it can't just be surface level, it really has to be woven into the fabric of the organization. You know, as part of the DEI community, having successful leaders from all walks of life is so important to see as well. You want to look up the org chart and see someone who looks like you. I look up and I see someone like Jillian Altamira, who is strong, passionate, brilliant, successful, and not to mention stylish. And so for me, seeing women in that successful seat really matters. I find that motivating and empowering. And, you know, again, I'm speaking from my perspective, but all employees should feel that representation from a senior level, whether they be allies or community members themselves.
Piera Valle
I couldn't agree more. Amy, what a what do you think we need to do better to retain or recruit young professionals and diverse candidates?
Amy Busch
So I mean, one of the things about the the candidate pool out there, you can't just keep fishing from the same pond and hope to catch, you know, a different kind of fish, I think the biggest opportunity is to go out there and develop and grow that pool of candidates. And that really starts with recruiting and retaining those that are just starting out in their careers. So as I kind of mentioned before, I am involved with our internship program. And I think this is kind of a fabulous way to help reach those folks that are out there that want to break into the industry or those that may not even realize that this is an opportunity for them yet. So one of the things we do with our internship program is strive to recruit those diverse voices, you know, really bring folks in that have an interest and really help develop and hone that interest, let them learn about the industry, get a feel for our company, culture, their culture, give them an opportunity to do meaningful work. And then once they graduate, we hire them. And it doesn't stop there, though, once you you know, have someone that comes into the organization needing to ensure that you have a support system that will keep them and retain them, you know, whether it's ensuring that they have supportive managers, or you know, creating a company culture where there's internal resources like internal, we call them the business resource groups at Huntington, the BRGs, I'm sure other organization from other names, but internal groups that are aligned to DEI interest, just ensuring those support systems are there to help keep and retain you know, those candidates.
Piera Valle
Absolutely. Thank you for that. I'm curious, what is your perspective on the future of the industry when it comes to DEI, Amy?
Amy Busch
I think the future of DEI is not just having DEI considered a compliance or a legal requirement. But moreso an ethical or competitive advantage to have colleagues that reflect the communities we serve. You know, we really need to foster an inclusive climate for colleagues and customers alike. And I think many organizations already recognize this and are doing it, we just need to continue to expand that outreach, and attract those diverse voices into the organization.
Piera Valle
Great, thank you, Mary?
Mary Tuggle
I couldn't agree more. I think DEI is something that doesn't necessarily just need to be an internal policy or procedure, but something that organizations think about as a firm, wide KPI we set revenue goals and targets. But how do we make this a top line item for the firm to address and track and measure. And, you know, while we can create these kinds of quantitative goals, we need to make sure that we're also addressing these things qualitatively as well, we need to make sure that we get a pulse on how the employee base feels, how people are feeling in terms of, you know, these different initiatives that are in place. And then I think the industry overall needs to move towards really sharing this information. If organizations find that success, and again, understanding that the competitive edge, but how do we create a better community in the wealth management industry more broadly. And so really sharing those results-oriented solutions is something that's going to be really key and important to solving.
Piera Valle
Great, I agree. I also think if we continue to be intentional with our DEI efforts, our future does look good. Well, I think finding better ways to recruit and retain diverse individuals is so important. I think we have another opportunity. We have leaders in the industry today that maybe retiring in the next five to 10 years, many of which do not come from diverse backgrounds. These leaders are currently working on their succession. Planning and unconscious bias studies do tell us that most look to replace themselves with people with similar backgrounds. So how do we break that cycle and give people that have the characteristics and skill sets to lead, but maybe overlooked because they don't seem to fit the traditional mold of a wealth management leader? This is where I think our BISA DEI mentorship program is a great start. We pair a current leader in the industry with one of our DEI rising stars, the intent is for each to learn from the other. The mentor can provide vast knowledge of our industry and what it takes to be a leader, while our mentees, you, the DEI rising stars can share your experiences and insight to help educate current leaders on how the needs of today's clients are different than yesterday's. And then having diversity of thought from people of all races, ages, races, backgrounds, is necessary for us to better serve our clients in the future. And for the overall success of our industry. It really is why the mentorship program is something I'm most proud of.
Piera Valle
What advice do you have for people wishing to get involved in DEI initiatives, whether it's at work or in their communities, Amy?
Amy Busch
So I would say if there's someone new in the industry, who is looking to get involved, and they just don't know how a first great step is to always talk to their managers about opportunities within their organizations. I know many companies have, you know, an intranet sites where they list the opportunities, whether it be internal resource groups that are there, or even if you just raise your hand and say you want to start something that's always, you know, a great way to get going. I would also encourage folks to look at opportunities in their community, you know, there's nothing better than giving back. It's almost selfish, because you get that good feeling that you're helping somebody else. And again, if you're unsure of where to start, there's so many great websites out there to match you with volunteer opportunities in your community. Even a little bit of effort can go a long way, and help somebody who's kind of in need.
Piera Valle
Absolutely, absolutely. In your work, it could just start with a conversation with someone that you don't know, that works with you, that doesn't look like you or act like you. And that alone could be enough to change the dynamic of a team or the culture. Yep. Mary, any thoughts here?
Mary Tuggle
You know, I would just say dive in headfirst, raise your hand and get involved, find key stakeholders at work or in your community and ask how you can get involved in DEI initiatives. And to any point, do your research and talk with your peers, connect with friends in other industries, read articles, books from the experts in the subject. By educating yourself, you can not only pass that knowledge along to your peers, but you can use it in order to drive that change in your organization. For me, you know, I get involved in all kinds of female focused events wherever I can, whether it be from women in structure products in New York or from my undergraduate, you know, women in business in New York City programs. I do my best to identify the opportunities that are available in the community and do the best I can to involve myself in every one of them.
Piera Valle
Well, thank you both for your contributions. Amazing. Last question is, as up and coming stars yourselves, what advice would you give people just now entering our industry? What is the one thing you wish you knew when you first began? Mary? Can you start?
Mary Tuggle
Absolutely. A couple of things I wish someone had said to me early on. First, be confident and speak your mind. Your opinion matters. So don't be afraid to speak up. Two: Give and seek feedback. Three, ask questions, maybe not the same ones over and over again. But don't be afraid to ask questions. Early on in my career, I was afraid people would think I was silly or disagreeable if I had a different opinion or perspective. I think you'd be amazed to see how responsive people are to you see speak up. Being thoughtfully vocal shows confidence and can elevate your status and perception from senior leaders. Not to mention your input could elicit some strong and innovative results. It fosters collaboration, and it gives others the confidence to speak up as well. Now on the flip side, you have to remember that you can't be upset or sensitive if others disagree with you. You want to create an open forum where all perspectives are welcome. We learn from our differences. So don't take it personally if someone disagrees from you. At legacy Simon and Icapital, we're constantly innovating and adding to our platform. So whenever we create a new feature, we review the functionality with our engineers. We build it and we give it feedback. I was so afraid early on to ever give constructive feedback. I never wanted the engineers to feel like I didn't value their work or appreciate the time that they had put in. I really did. But I also knew that there were some improvements that could be made along the way. The first time I raised my hand that feedback was genuinely appreciated and actually eased their workload. So just an example to say, you know, don't be afraid to speak your mind. Don't be afraid to give an opinion. It's one of the best things that you can do to really help your career growth and your teams grow.
Piera Valle
Yeah that's such great advice and so important for those entering this workforce to understand. Amy, what advice would you give those entering the industry?
Amy Busch
I'm going to reiterate what Mary said -- ask the questions. That was my big concern with coming in as a career changer. I felt I had to learn the entire scope of the industry and there's a lot of complexity in it as everyone knows. Don't be afraid to ask those questions. There are no silly questions and that's how you learn. The second thing and most important thing is to find a mentor. mentorship doesn't ahve to be a formal partnership sponsored by an organization. It could be a manager from another department. Someone you look up to who sits across from you. Don't be afraid to go to that individual and ask them and say hey would you have a few minutes where I can ask you a few questions. I'm interested in learning more about what you do or the industry. Things of that nature. That's where you're really going to start to grow. That's where you're really going to start to learn and develop and get that guideance you might need to push you to the next level.
Piera Valle
This was a really great discussion. Again I want to thank you both for being here and thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. I hope this conversation will benefit other young professionals who are currently in wealth management as well as leaders on the importance of change. Thanks everyone for listening today. If you enjoyed the podcast, please subscribe, rate and review so you won't miss future uploads. And please share this podcast and join the conversation on social media.